This Day In History:

Yeah, sorry. I put the wrong year. It should be 1951 not 1961.

Ok that sounds about right. Although I don't think he ever officially declared himself Marxist till after the revolution.

He did, in fact, officially declare himself a Marxist in 1961 but 1951 was approximately when he made the decision to overthrow Batista. I wonder if its a coincidence?

Harry Palmer wrote:

You are never to young to be proud of your homeland. Why wouldn't I be proud, my family helped build this country and this country has given my family so much.

Didn't you have a rebellious phase? It's just a natural phase of growing up and forging an individual identity for youth to rebel (to some degree) against the values of their elders. Surely you don't think the current arrangements are without their flaws:

Indigo wrote:

2001- Enron files for bankruptcy

December 2, 1859. John Brown is hanged for his part in the failed slave insurrection at Harpers Ferry, Va. (now West Va.).

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Didn't you have a rebellious phase? It's just a natural phase of growing up and forging an individual identity for youth to rebel (to some degree) against the values of their elders. Surely you don't think the current arrangements are without their flaws

Sure I went through a rebellious phase, I started around 17 and grew out of it right after I turned 21. But even during that time I still was loyal to my country and its government, I was a big fan of W. My rebellious phase had little to do with politics and more to do partying.

Any system has its flaws, including socialism and communism. Last time I checked the gulags were not much better than Dachau, and the KGB wasn't that much different then the Gestapo. On the flip side you have what happened to the Native Americans and the blacks in the south. You have rich CEOs in the USA and you had the Politburo in the Soviet Union, both took/take more than their share. Greed is universal because it is human nature. By 1991 the Soviet Union had its own aristocracy of sorts, do you really think the perpetrators of the August Coup were watching out for anybodies interests other then themselves, they were trying to preserve their own place in society because they knew their days were numbered with the fall of the wall. Gorbachev had the people's interests at heart, and any person with a half rate education can see that. But I don't loose sleep over those things, every government in the world has committed some attrocity, so all it comes down to is which system you think is best. Socialism and communism do not account for human nature, they do not account for our desire to have more then those around us. I believe our desire to have more and be better then those around us is good, it is what drives the economies of the world. It is what drove Europeans to travel across the Atlantic Ocean to America.

When my family got off the boat in 1912, no one handed us anything other then a US Citizenship, they were poor Irish immigrants and now we are upper middle class. Sure it took three generations but we did it, therefore it is possible for others to do. As far as I am concerned you have to earn everything in life accept for your citizenship, you are entitled to nothing else. The biggest problem with young people today is they feel entitled to things like healthcare.

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The biggest problem with young people today is they feel entitled to things like healthcare.

Yeah, those damn loafing toddlers, having the presumption to lay around doing nothing, expecting Mom and Dad to wait on them hand and foot, sing to them, and bring them food! They even go so far as to expect the parents to wipe their asses! But, on top of all of that, they then have the churlish presumption to catch colic, colds, viruses, chicken pox, mumps, and measles, and then expect the Government to provide some health care and basic medication so that the lazy, good for nothing little takers don't kick the bucket! Damn right, Harry, let's cut their free ride off and let the little diaper shitting bastards pay their own way!

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Yeah, those damn loafing toddlers, having the presumption to lay around doing nothing, expecting Mom and Dad to wait on them hand and foot, sing to them, and bring them food! They even go so far as to expect the parents to wipe their asses! But, on top of all of that, they then have the churlish presumption to catch colic, colds, viruses, chicken pox, mumps, and measles, and then expect the Government to provide some health care and basic medication so that the lazy, good for nothing little takers don't kick the bucket! Damn right, Harry, let's cut their free ride off and let the little diaper shitting bastards pay their own way!

Amen brother, preach it!

Harry Palmer wrote:

The biggest problem with young people today is they feel entitled to things like healthcare.

Yeah bloody parasites!!! How dare they expect anything more than a bullet in the neck. They should just get back up those chimneys and keep their insolent mouths shut.

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Yeah bloody parasites!!! How dare they expect anything more than a bullet in the neck. They should just get back up those chimneys and keep their insolent mouths shut.

A little rough for my tastes, I think the bullet in the back of the neck is more a KGB thing. Remember in America we do not execute political dissidents like they do in North Korea.

Why in the neck? I never understood that - not having studied the fine art of killing in much detail.

Harry Palmer wrote:

Remember in America we do not execute political dissidents like they do in North Korea.

The chimney sweep bit is still pretty compatible with your views though?

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The chimney sweep bit is still pretty compatible with your views though?

If the chimney sweep works hard enough, and his wife sweeps a chimney or two as well....then he can send his kid to college and his kid can have a better life then the chimney sweep. Just like my grandfather was a plumber, who sent his son to college so he could have a better life then my grandfather. Just like my father was a military officer, he sent me to a better college then he graduated from so that I could have a better life then he did, and so that I would have other options then the military when I graduated. I will someday send my children to a better college then the one I attended.

I was referring to the Dickensian chimney sweep, but never mind. He's almost an archetype for the exploited child worker.

Harry Palmer wrote:

I will someday send my children to a better college then the one I attended.

Where will it end? It sounds kind of depressing personally. As long as your kids aren't sweeping chimneys or going without healthcare I guess it's all good.

December 3

1800 – War of the Second Coalition: Battle of Hohenlinden, French General Moreau defeats the Austrian Archduke John near Munich decisively, coupled with First Consul Napoleon Bonaparte's victory at Marengo effectively forcing the Austrians to sign an armistice and ending the war.

1929 – Great Depression: US President Herbert Hoover announces to the U.S. Congress that the worst effects of the recent stock market crash are behind the nation and the American people have regained faith in the economy.

1944 – Greek Civil War: Fighting breaks out in Athens between the ELAS and government forces supported by the British Army.

1984 – Bhopal Disaster: A methyl isocyanate leak from a Union Carbide pesticide plant in Bhopal, India, kills more than 3,800 people outright and injures 150,000–600,000 others (some 6,000 of whom would later die from their injuries) in one of the worst industrial disasters in history.

1989 – Cold War: In a meeting off the coast of Malta, US President George H. W. Bush and Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev release statements indicating that the cold war between their nations may be coming to an end.

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I was referring to the Dickensian chimney sweep, but never mind. He's almost an archetype for the exploited child worker.

I never said I supported child labor.

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Where will it end? It sounds kind of depressing personally. As long as your kids aren't sweeping chimneys or going without healthcare I guess it's all good.

I do not find it depressing, I find it inspiring and humbling. To know that my great grandparents, my grandparents, and my parents worked very hard so that I could be where I am today is both inspiring and humbling. Knowing that gives me purpose and meaning in life, I have been given so much, so I cannot let down those who have invested so much in my life. It never ends, each generation makes life a little better for the next, thats how it should be. People should always be striving for the better for themselves and their families, they should never become complacent. To quote one of my favorite military tacticians, who happened to be a communist:

"Better is the enemy of good enough."
-Admiral of the Fleet of the Soviet Union Sergey Gorshkov (Commander in Chief of the Soviet Navy 1956-1985)

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Any system has its flaws, including socialism and communism. Last time I checked the gulags were not much better than Dachau, and the KGB wasn't that much different then the Gestapo

GULAGs were disbanded in the 50s.Soviet Union didn't have extermination camps.

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You have rich CEOs in the USA and you had the Politburo in the Soviet Union, both took/take more than their share.

Politburo members weren't exploiters.

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By 1991 the Soviet Union had its own aristocracy of sorts, do you really think the perpetrators of the August Coup were watching out for anybodies interests other then themselves, they were trying to preserve their own place in society because they knew their days were numbered with the fall of the wall.

1.They could have sided with Yeltsin etc in order to "painlessly" get pensions and benefits as those who peacefully relinquished the power.That would actually benefit Yeltsin because of additional "legitimacy" of the counter-revolution he led,and as an "illustration of how worn-out the old CPSU was".
2.They were trying to protect socialism and the Soviet Union and prevent Yeltsin and his gang from pillaging,stealing,cheating and ruining Russia and the Soviet Union.

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Gorbachev had the people's interests at heart, and any person with a half rate education can see that.

LOL!
Soviet Union was illegally disbanded! The majority voted for the USSR to remain!
Anyway,do you really think that it was "in the people's interest" to have their possessions,their factories,their resources (all of which cost so much blood and sweat) taken away from them? Are you even familiar with what's been going on there since the betrayal of the USSR?

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Socialism and communism do not account for human nature, they do not account for our desire to have more then those around us.

What's human nature anyway? What does that even mean?

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Sure it took three generations but we did it, therefore it is possible for others to do

False on multiple grounds.
Situation in 1912 wasn't the same as in 2002 for example.

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A little rough for my tastes, I think the bullet in the back of the neck is more a KGB thing. Remember in America we do not execute political dissidents like they do in North Korea.

No shit? What about Martin Luther King or Sitting Bull?
And what about all those the US has killed outside it's borders? Che Guevara for instance?
Anyway,bullet in the back is less degrading than American-style gas chamber,electric chair or a poisinous injection.

December 3rd

1989- Egon Krenz of the German Democratic Republic's politburo and party Central Committee resigns.
1997- The International Monetary Fund approves a $52 Million bailout for South Korea's economy.
1818- Illinois gains statehood, making it the 21st state in the union.

Tails wrote:

US President Herbert Hoover announces to the U.S. Congress that the worst effects of the recent stock market crash are behind the nation and the American people have regained faith in the economy.

Can't put my finger on it, but I'm almost positive I've heard the exact same thing some time recently.

Loz wrote:

No shit? What about Martin Luther King or Sitting Bull?
And what about all those the US has killed outside it's borders? Che Guevara for instance?
Anyway,bullet in the back is less degrading than American-style gas chamber,electric chair or a poisinous injection.

This made my day even better, thanks you Loz.

December 5th

1933- Prohibition ends with the ratification of the 21st amendment
1955- The AFL-CIO is formed from a merger of, surprisingly enough, the AFL and the CIO
1994- Newt Gingrich becomes the first Republican speaker of the house in 40 years

Today is also the birthday of Martin van Buren, Walt Disney, George A. Custer, and Werner Heisenburg. Mozart also died on this day.

Martin Van Buren? His election in 1836, taking over for Andrew Jackson, signalled the start of a long line of mediocre, mostly one term, "caretaker" Presidents that was briefly interrupted by Lincoln, and then resumed all the way to the accession of Teddy Roosevelt in 1901. Pivotal years in the development of the industrial bourgeoisie in this country, with nothing even close to a check on their power.