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Weed and the Communism

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Post 16 Dec 2012, 11:27
Do you think that a socialist state should ban any use of weed? or some ''modern marxists'' have right to say that ''no big deal''
it may sounds funny as a topic but it has troubled me in the past, even if i am not user
Post 16 Dec 2012, 13:08
Any use no. If it can have medical uses, then let's use it. But only as a medicine.
Post 16 Dec 2012, 16:44
If people want to smoke weed let them smoke.
Post 16 Dec 2012, 19:04
Firstly, who didn't expect me to post in this thread?

Secondly, there is no rational basis for the prohibition of drugs let alone one so weak and ineffectual as marijuana. Alcohol alone kills thousands a year and causes some significant social stress. There is no reason to ban it either because that misses the point. Through prohibition you simply create all the forces necessary to the creation of Black Markets, because humans will never ever want to stop doing drugs of one sort or another.

Thirdly, who cares? What problems does weed cause? And let's see if any of your excuses are anything other than stereotypes.
Post 16 Dec 2012, 21:22
OP-Bagration wrote:
Any use no. If it can have medical uses, then let's use it. But only as a medicine.

Why is it not surprising the stalinist doesn't fail to be a social conservative (chauvinist) and a paternalistic reactionary, are you incapable of deviating from anything stalin did?

People like you entirely miss the point of socialism. It's not your petty social engineering project, the goal of it is abundance of use values. That includes recreational drugs.
Post 16 Dec 2012, 22:50

Chairman Bob answers all of your pot related questions in a socialist society.

Dagoth Ur wrote:
Thirdly, who cares? What problems does weed cause? And let's see if any of your excuses are anything other than stereotypes.

Slightly unrelated question, but do they have testing for weed related DUIs?
Post 17 Dec 2012, 01:26
What does that have to do with Stalinism Conscript?
Being anti-drug or "socially conservative" in general is not something reserved for Stalinists.
On the other hand you have "unconventional" Stalin-fetishists like Nazbols a lot of whom look like junkies.

That includes recreational drugs.

Says who? What else does that include?
Post 17 Dec 2012, 02:13
Loz wrote:
What does that have to do with Stalinism Conscript?

Stalinism represents the left wing of capitalism, the demoralization and degeneration of the revolution into something closer to the bourgeois nation-state, where ruling class ideas like conservatism and nationalism are dominant. It is no better than social democracy, perhaps worse since it latches on to the workers' struggle and embraces social conservatism

Being anti-drug or "socially conservative" in general is not something reserved for Stalinists.

As far as communists go they the represent a thaw in the matter. Stalin criminalized abortion and homosexuality, conducted anti-alcohol campaigns, apologized for the rape of germans, and used nationalism. Stalinists today haven't exactly dumped his social chauvinism, some have take it even further.

On the other hand you have "unconventional" Stalin-fetishists like Nazbols a lot of whom look like junkies.

It's modern russia.

Says who? What else does that include?

Who are you to arbitrarily decide what commodities people get to consume?

It includes drugs people use recreationally, it's another use value in the world. It'll be consumed whether or not you like it, so get over it and stop wasting time and resources fighting it, and simultaneously leaving its production to very harmful, criminal capital.
Post 17 Dec 2012, 03:11
Red Rebel wrote:
Slightly unrelated question, but do they have testing for weed related DUIs?

they have a test for weed in your system. testing whether a particular level constitutes an impairment is more subjective. the courts have some elbow room on that score.
Post 17 Dec 2012, 20:02
Weed is awesome. Banning it is stupid, and will lead only to illegal drug trafficking. As opposed to those who say that legalising weed will lead to more criminal activity, making drugs illegal leads to criminal organisations taking over the supply of the drugs. Look at the prohibition, for example.
Post 18 Dec 2012, 05:38
offredstar wrote:
they have a test for weed in your system. testing whether a particular level constitutes an impairment is more subjective. the courts have some elbow room on that score.

That is one of my biggest problems. We have tests that state you have smoked weed within the past couple of weeks, yet we do not have (to my knowledge) an acute test to state that you are currently high. One can drive a car and work on the job normally after smoking weed on the weekend or after school/work.
Post 26 Dec 2012, 12:38
Medicinal use yes, recreational use no.

Recreational drugs will do nothing but handicap social and economic efficiency. It is a common Bourgeois claim that we Socialists advocate for a state of welfare where lumpenproletariat scum benefit from the work of the proletarians. Absolutely not! We are the kinds of people who'll force harsh punishments such as wage cuts on anyone who has the gulls to disregard work. We are the ones who will put posters of the hardest workers side-by-side with the laziest ones, so those with the greatest social convictions are hailed whilst the scum are ridiculed. Jerome Davis actually had an interview with a manager of a factory in Soviet Russia, and the manager said that the system of posting the least efficient workers was the best tactics in defeating inefficiency as the lazy workers would be ridiculed non-stop by his fellow employees.
This is who we are, and we advocate the Dictatorship of the Proletariat for a reason. If the use of recreational marijuana fits with principle of 'work makes right,' a smooth variant of the Roman 'might makes right' but as to refer to the socialist system, then let it be had, but I doubt it would do nothing but have deleterious outcomes for society.

I think it was Enver Hoxha who pointed out that youngsters do not need to take drugs if they want to leave this world mentally.
Post 26 Dec 2012, 19:05
Who is Enver Hoxha to tell me not to use drugs?
Post 26 Dec 2012, 19:14
Yeah Hoxha was an uptight douche who left Albania in shambles. He probably needed to smoke weed.

Also the rest of your argument makes no sense. Are you really saying that no one can be a good proletarian if they smoke weed for relaxation? Seems like Taylorism to me.
Post 26 Dec 2012, 23:31
Dagoth Ur wrote:
Also the rest of your argument makes no sense. Are you really saying that no one can be a good proletarian if they smoke weed for relaxation? Seems like Taylorism to me.

Marijuana only leads to inefficiency in production. That was my argument... And no they can't be good Proletarians if they use the substance, rather they are classified as "lumpenproletariats" or the social scum.

Enver Hoxha held to principles of Marxism-Leninism his entire life. I have much more respect for him than the revisionists who traded principles for imperial spoils. Even with the little the country was capable of achieving on its own, it managed to offer a better standard of living and life expectancy than what was expected of it.
Post 27 Dec 2012, 02:24
Albania still sucked. And anti-revisionism represents the same tendency as Trotskyism. Dogmatic and utterly convinced that they're the one true lineage of Marx.

Also how is someone who smokes weed less efficient? What do you base this notion on? Also using drugs has no connection to the classification of lumpenproletariat as using drugs has no economic meaning. I perform labor and am exploited for it, hence I am proletarian. If I made my livelihood through illicit means, or if I were unemployed, then I would be lumpen.
Post 28 Dec 2012, 06:37
Havee3333333 wrote:
Marijuana only leads to inefficiency in production. That was my argument...

Weed would effect productivity at work, as would alcohol. Smoking weed after work and having a few beers after work does not effect productivity at work.
Post 30 Dec 2012, 16:31
I will post what I think is today the most advanced revolutionary theory and politcs in relation to drugs and alcohol abuse etc.

It is the unwavering position of the heroic KKE and KNE which I am referring to.

I will post two "Documents" which explains the policy of the Hellenic Communists.
Post 30 Dec 2012, 16:33
Document 1:

Drugs have obviously long been an issue for the left in Ireland, due to the effect they have on working class communities. Interesting to see the following account of protests by Greek Communists on the KKE international pages against the proposed legalisation of drugs.

Mass and militant youth demonstration of KNE in Athens, yesterday, against the legalization of drugs
Hundreds of members of KNE and friends of the organization took part in the demonstration, 2/2, in the centre of Athens against the draft law of the three-party government (social-democrats-conservatives-nationalists) which legalizes the use, trafficking and supply of drugs.

Speaking at the rally, Giorgos Sideris, member of the Bureau of the CC of KNE, spoke about the issue of drugs in its entirety, revealing the lies and rottenness of the ideological constructs which accompany the "Drug Code". As he stressed:
"Under the pressure of the communists and the condemnation of the people, the Minister of Justice in his statement today has left open the possibility of the draft law being withdrawn. We are not complacent, we will not stop, we are in a state of vigilance, we will continue more dynamically (.)

They know that they would face the fierce opposition of the working people. They would always find themselves faced by a wall of people from the popular strata who do not want the future of their children to be a drug-fuelled haze. Why they are bringing it now? It is very clear. They want the consciousness of the youth drugged so that they do not have demands, struggle or protest. (.)

Drugs are not a free choice, or right. It is a despotic choice, it is the abolition of every right (.)
"PASOK, together with the opportunists of various shades but especially SYN/SYRIZA as well as Kouvelis' party("Democratic Left"), are taking on the burden of promoting and passing this draft law, and the attack against our party. They reproduce the rotten ideological construct of the right to "self-harm". What are they saying to us? That those who are depriving us of the right to work, education, healthcare, culture, sports are concerned over the "right" for us to harm ourselves. This draft law is an opportunity for conclusions to be drawn.

The parties of capital conceal the root of the drug problem. They operate in the line of management and not dealing with the problem, because they serve a system which reproduces the problem of drugs.

The KKE is opposed both to the policies of repression which are represented by parties such as LAOS or fascist forces such as Chrysi Avgi ("Golden Dawn") and treat users as "scum", and the so-called "progressive" policies of the legalization and liberalization of drug use, which are represented by forces such as SYN/SYRIZA and various alleged "anti-authoritarians". On the issue of drugs two basic lines and logics are again coming into conflict. The one of compromise and management and the other of the radical treatment of the problem. The KKE and its youth, KNE, are the only who say NO to all drugs", concluded the member of the Bureau of the CC.

Rallies of KNE on the issue of drugs also took place in Thessalonica and other major Greek cities.


We pay attention and we fight against issues of tolerance towards
drugs and narcotic culture as well as alcoholism. These are factors
that corrode the organization and they are signs of compromise
of the youth and detachment from class struggle. Today we can
decisively talk about the actual meaning of freedom by proving how
illiberal the path of drugs is, how false the arguments about "free
disposition of body and soul" and "free to be different" are.

The massive culture of capitalism, which cultivates fear and
fatalism and also the individual solution, the spread of drugs, the
projection of the old fashioned model of the self-created man, the
one who surpasses the class structure and becomes the boss instead
of a worker, the massive entertainment industry cannot be called
as being a part of culture and entertainment. In reality it is an ideological manipulation of the young people and we should face it
in similar way by cultivating a totally different way of entertainment
and culture; in other words to create different models.
Front against the cultivated tolerance
towards using drug substances and alcoholism

The constant effort of legalizing the demarcation of "mild" and
"hard" drugs in the conscious of younger but also older ages is
very well processed and coordinated. It goes hand in hand with the
effort to separate the problem from its social causes, to consider
psychological, medical and other factors as its main causes just to
escape accusing the exploiting system that bears the problem of
drug addiction.

The popular, workers' families and their children have to face the
strategic "unity" of the bourgeois and opportunist parties which
support the legalization of these substances and agree on measures
concerning "the restriction of damage".

The using of drug substances at continuously younger ages, the
high percentages at workers' neighbourhoods, professional and
evening schools and villages that are hit by the wipe out of the
poor peasants, the vast raise of use in the Army, is a warning sign
for the entire workers' and revolutionary movement, and firstly for
the Communist Youth. The attack by drugs which the youth faces is
an attack of compromise and submission, it is a mental attack. We
open a front with a campaign and stable work, which will penetrate
all fronts of struggle, the labor, the student, the pupil movement.

Using drugs is an act that one cannot compromise with when being
a member of the Communist Youth of Greece.

We support "dry" programs for purgation of drug-addiction
that everyday prove the endless strength of man to overcome
addiction. We reject all these theories that face this issue with
medical (psychological and pathological) terms and as a result
give such solutions as general use of substitute substances for
the "confinement of the damage". We also open a front against
alcoholism and the idea that in order for someone to have fun
they must get drunk. Along with the circulation of the brochure of
the Department Against Drug Substances of the Central Committee of KKE we will move to a conversation with all the Student base
organizations on this issue.
Post 30 Dec 2012, 16:36

The June 26, World Day Against Drugs, is an opportunity for more young people to realize the real causes of the problem of drugs, engage in the struggle against all drugs. To go back to the governments and parties that support the simplex of capitalism and advertising their dangerous policies of the European Union on drugs, which are based:
- The underfunding of dry therapeutic programs that lead to contraction, although proven to be the most effective treatment method.
- The generalization of methadone substitution treatment as a basic form, which the state distributes a pinch of "life dependent users" to unacceptable sites without basic medical care and monitoring in order to resend them back after the ranks of merchants and misery.
- In the absence of effective prevention and social reintegration. Last year only 1.5% of students attended the country's prevention programs. At the same time the 72 Centers for Disease Prevention and its employees are in the air.
- The political legitimacy of drug use. The separation of hard and soft on the pretext of the right to "free" choice. " This logic is criminal and dangerous. Those who defend this policy play with the lives and dreams of young people.

The parties co-ruling PASOK-ND-Dimaras and SYRIZA their positions serve these dangerous policies. These policies are having launch in EU countries and Greece, rates of drug addiction and use of the early ages, combined with the consequences and the impasse of capitalism. Especially in times of crisis, multiply all those factors (unemployment, poverty, marginalization, depression, class barriers to education and health, sports and culture) that contribute to the spread of drugs.

In those circumstances we urge the youth to reflect:
Who has an interest in a youth trapped in the fake world of drugs? What gain by keeping youth in the margin, the narkoypotagi and blur?
Winning the capitalist system, those who see their profits multiplied by the exploitation and collapse of the people and youth.

The examples are numerous indeed. As in Argentina in 2001 with the capitalist crisis appeared the drug "pack" or "the thief of the mind", the "Terminator of the poor", so today in Greece appeared a new, cheap and very dangerous drug for life and Health user named "sisa" or else the "Coca-poor."

Clearly show the similarities and objective: For best interests are a young and apathetic Doped and not a youth who will fight.

The politics of money and political repression preserve and perpetuate the problem of drugs or legalizing it in the minds of the people in hiding or in prison. Addressing the problem is not even in prison, or in recognition of the right mastouras. Located in guaranteeing the right to effective treatment for users of the right to prevent all young people. It is above all the fighting, organized and collective struggle for education, job rights, culture and sports.

The INR invites youth to be vigilant, to say no to the separation of hard and soft drugs, to fight for a society free from drugs and not drug free. It calls for commitment of the Communist Party, the only political force that brings out the real cause of drug addiction, who consistently fights against all drugs and claims:
• Deployment of a public body to exclusively provide free preventive services - rehabilitation - social reintegration without private participation.
• No business in the area of prevention, rehabilitation and social reintegration.
• Support of dry therapeutic treatment programs that demonstrate daily the unstoppable power of man to beat the addiction.
• Full employment and social reintegration of Released.
• crippling penalties for traffickers. Judges specialized body for drugs.

We urge every young man who experiences the suffering of his family, getting in position bastion of the fight. The joint action and commitment of the KKE and KNE, the struggle for socialism, is what opens the way for the final solution to the problem of drugs.

Athens, June 25, 2012 The Press Office of the KNE KS
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